Friday, 26 June 2015

Pastor John Fenn

Hi all,
Last week I shared how God will never cause a person to lose control of themselves in convulsions. That doesn't mean the human body doesn't shake or feel warm when in the presence of God - because it can.

Heaven created, but earth formed
A believer's spirit has been recreated by the Spirit of God and can therefore withstand the fullness of heaven. But the human body at this stage of our eternal lives is formed of the earth, and things made of earth are a lower form of creation than the heavenly, so doesn't react well to the things of the Spirit.

Like an electric stove top which has elements made to resist electricity flowing into them, which causes them to heat up, so too does the earth-body resist and react to the Spirit of God.

A person may feel a warmth, 'goose bumps', shaking in one's limbs, or weakness in the body when in the presence of the Lord. If the power is turned up a bit more, like the stove top element that heats up more when more electricity is allowed into it, the human body may be 'slain in the spirit' - poor term to describe a person losing physical strength and falling down as a result.

If the power is turned up a bit more, a person may have a trance or vision as Peter did in Acts 9, or a person may appear to be deeply asleep, and sometimes they are having amazing experiences with the Lord, and yet other times they don't recall a thing afterwards.

If the power is turned up high enough, it will kill the human body, which happened to Uzzah in II Samuel 6:6-7 who touched the Ark of the Covenant to steady it as David had incorrectly transported it by ox cart rather than by priests. If the power is turned up higher than just killing a person, it will change the molecular structure of earth-flesh into heavenly-flesh, which is what happened to Jesus at His resurrection* and what will happen to all believers when our earth bodies are 'changed' into the heavenly**.  *Romans 6:4 says Jesus was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father. **I Corinthians 15:35-55.

I said I'd share about God, the devil, and the is the flesh
When a person feels the Holy Spirit come on them and their flesh starts to shake, that can be a natural reaction to the Holy Spirit by the human body, as it is made of earth and reacts to the Spirit of God.

But my point from last week that Paul taught remains true*, God will never cause you to lose control. A person can give themselves over to the shaking because they haven't been taught they can stop the shaking yet still feel the anointing. I have instructed many over the years in this. *I Corinthians 14:32

A typical conversation will be to talk to them while they are shaking, and ask if they feel the presence of God - normally they will say something like 'Yes, this happens to me in the presence of God', or something like that, as they know their body and how it reacts - each person is different.

Then I'll share Paul's teaching, and ask them to take control of their shaking (arm for example) and as they do I continue to ask them if they still feel the presence, which they always answer they do. Within a couple of minutes they have stopped shaking, and testify they still feel the presence of the Lord just as strongly.

They've now been taught scripture and the ways of the Spirit, therefore no longer focused on themselves and their shaking, but are now able to focus again on the Lord and receive from Him.

Ignorant leaders
What happens is that pastors and ministers are ignorant, and frankly, sometimes use these reactions to the Spirit as ego and ministry boosters because news of shaking builds their ministry up in the eyes of many.

And because they are willingly ignorant of the ways of the Spirit and the human body and it makes a good show, well meaning people who attend are allowed to shake, convulse, roll, bark, laugh, and all sorts of things as they give themselves over to it, never knowing God will never cause you to lose control of yourself.

God doesn't interrupt Himself, so He won't have x person teaching while y person in a pew is drawing attention to themselves by shaking or laughing or convulsing - the minister needs to talk to that person and teach them how to regain control of their flesh, or let the meeting go to all laughing or all shaking. God isn't divided against Himself nor therefore does He contradict His purpose in a meeting by interrupting Himself.

And there are some who shake because they like the attention, in a sick way thinking somehow they are more spiritual because they shake. But what if that shaking is not the flesh, but a demon?

How the Holy Spirit uproots a demon so that it manifests
In Matthew 12:25-28 Jesus is accused of casting out demons by the power of the devil, but He responds: "If I by Beelzbub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. But if I cast them out by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you."

Jesus worked then and continues now to work with the Holy Spirit to cast out demons, for His whole ministry is cooperating with what the Father wants to do by His Spirit*. Jesus hasn't changed which means we as His body must also cooperate with the Holy Spirit in ministry. *John 5:19

No one just walks up to a person and says "I command that spirit in you to come out" - the exception in scripture being the person knows they have a spirit and wants it out, their will with the Holy Spirit bringing it to the surface to be dealt with, or a parent of a dependent child asks on their behalf as it manifests.

Notice in Jesus' ministry spirits were manifesting when Jesus cast them out, 'pushed to the surface by the Holy Spirit' for lack of a better way of saying it. We see this in Matthew 15: 21-28 with the woman whose daughter was tormented, evidently as she spoke with Jesus, and in Matthew 8:28-34 where two men possessed with demons manifesting came to Jesus, who cast the spirits out.

In Mark 1:21-26 Jesus is teaching and a demon in a man starts manifesting during His teaching, and He casts him out. In Mark 5 a man with 2,000 demons led by Legion came running to Jesus to be delivered.

We see this same cooperation with the Holy Spirit in Acts 16 with Paul who was followed by a slave girl with a 'spirit of divination', saying; 'These men are servants of the most high god and show us the way of salvation', which in Greek culture was Zeus the sky god, so this spirit was lying about Paul and Silas, and Paul cast out the spirit as it manifest.

As it was then it is now; the Living Word and Spirit agree and work together.
A person convulsing because of a demon is doing so with little or no control over it - the Holy Spirit pushes it up to manifest so it can be cast out. A person convulsing in the flesh can regain control quite easily.

If you ask a person if it is God on them or if God is on them because they have a demon, you will know by their reaction - a demon will often speak up at that point with a hate filled response, and if in the flesh a person will look at you like you're crazy to suggest they have a demon. If its a demon tell it to leave, and if the flesh try to help them grow a bit by regaining control of their body. And if they won't cooperate, then know there are times you have to give up on people not because you don't care, but because they don't.

I never got to what the Argentineans said...So next week Argentineans, where gold dust, feathers, and jewels came from - and more...until then, blessings!
    John Fenn and email me at

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